How Marketing and Branding Can Revolutionize your Fundraising

Hey, everyone, I'm Sarah Lange and I'm here to spark the philanthropy revolution. The word philanthropy means love of mankind. My show is all about the ways we can revolutionize our fundraising so we can raise more money and do more good.

Sarah Lange: Hey, everybody, it's Sarah Lange with the Philanthropy Revolution. Happy to join you for another episode. Thanks for joining us today or listening to the broadcast after it's posted to YouTube. For those of you who don't know me, I am a professional fundraiser. I raise more money so non profits can do more good and I love what I do.

Sarah Lange: I've raised over $100 million. It's probably closer to 110 million, but I've lost count. Should probably redo the math at some point. Anyway, I'm here to help you raise more money so you can do more good. And today I'm super excited to have Michelle from Lone Red and Company. She is, just to be fully transparent, my graphic designer. I love her to death. We're in the middle of a rebranding process of stuff.

Sarah Lange: Stay tuned for that. And I'm going to have Michelle join us now and she's going to introduce herself and tell you a little bit about who she is and what she does. Hey. Hey.

Michelle Knox: Thanks for having me on.

Sarah Lange: Always so happy to have you here.

Michelle Knox: Yeah. Well, I am Michelle Knox. I am on the opposite side of the country now than Sarah. I live in the Pacific Northwest. I'm the owner of Lone Bread and Company or Loan, Red and Co, which I don't go so far as to call it an online agency. I call it more of a collaborative. I pull together a team of creatives to work on branding and marketing for my clients. And we really focus on brand messaging and clarity and strategy around your branding and marketing.

Michelle Knox: So that is me moved here from Louisville, Kentucky about a year ago. So. Yeah. Crazy.

Sarah Lange: I can't believe it's been a year. Wow.

Michelle Knox: Me either.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Life is just flying by too fast.

Michelle Knox: It is. It is. It is faster every year.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. So I'll tell you guys a little bit about my relationship with Michelle. I honestly don't even remember when or how we met, but Michelle, six years, I think. Wow. Six years. No wonder I can't remember.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Sarah Lange: So Michelle has really been my partner in crime when it comes to thinking about my brand and how I present it in the world and how do I be consistent about that? How do I talk about myself in a way that kind of gathers everything that there is to know about me, which is a lot. And so she's done a great job over the years of really helping me get some clarity around how to put myself out in the world. And now, like I mentioned, we're working on a rebrand, so stay tuned for that. I'm very excited about the brand and where it's headed. And yeah, I just. She's my go to person when it comes to questions about how I show up in the world. So thanks for all your help over the years.

Michelle Knox: Absolutely. And I am. I love partnerships like ours that are ongoing and then I can dive deep and get to know the client and what they're working on and what their goals are and where they're headed.

Sarah Lange: Yeah.

Michelle Knox: More than anything, you need to when you're branding or marketing, I think outside of our daily bubble. Right. And Project 5, 10 years down the road, where am I taking my business and stretching into who we want to be and become. Right. So that it's better for me when I get these long term clients because we develop a relationship and become more than clients. Which is cool. And I just have a better understanding of. Of who you are.

Michelle Knox: So that's good. Yeah.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Great. So let's dive into branding and marketing because, you know, I just went to the Mass Nonprofit Network conference last week and there was a presenter who said that, you know, marketing is a dirty word for nonprofits and yet I think, you know, it's so important for nonprofits. And so let's talk about branding. Like what is a brand and why does it matter?

Michelle Knox: Right. Well, and I think now because of where we are with online businesses and marketing and you know, just the influx over the last 10, 15 years. Right. It's just. And especially post pandemic, it is just. I feel like it's noisier than ever. Right. So there are a lot of people talking about branding and marketing, which I think is a great thing.

Michelle Knox: And I think it has helped some people realize that your brand is not your logo. It is not the colors or the fonts you use, that that is not your brand. Your brand actually lives inside the minds of your customers or anyone who comes into contact with your marketing materials, with your online presence, with you, with anyone who represents your nonprofit or your business or whatnot. So it's something that you use brand visuals and messaging to kind of curate so that you make sure that whatever is in their minds is what you want to be there. So, but I have to explain that to a lot of people that it's not something that you hold. Right. It is in the minds of your customers and then your job is to do the work of brand strategy and clarity and all of those things. Yes, your visuals play a part in that, of course, but that is just one aspect of it.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And so why is that important for nonprofits? I mean, obviously we can all see why it's important for profits, but then why is that important for nonprofits?

Michelle Knox: Non profits? I think for a long time it's been almost shameful for them to promote themselves and run themselves like a business. But that is exactly what they are. And in order for people to understand why their why and why they're doing what they are in the world and to reach the people that they want to help and to get across the difference that they're making in the world, they have to promote themselves, they have to market themselves, they have to develop and create the right brand and messaging in order to get their message out there and to rise above the noise. I mean, we all know there's so many nonprofits that pull at our heartstrings for different reasons. Right. And they all need funding. They're all looking for volunteers. They're all, you know, so what is going to make your nonprofit stand out? Right? And it's, and it's not any different than when you're strategizing from a business standpoint, from the, you know, creating a brand from a business standpoint.

Michelle Knox: You have to rise above the noise. You have to be super clear about who your ideal person is. What's your audience you're trying to reach? Is it the people that you want to help? Is it your funders? You know, what is it that you need to happen in order to get your message out there so that you can help more people?

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Yeah, that's great. The one thing that I think happens, especially in the non profit sector is, you know, there's this whole set of beliefs around how non profits should operate. And, you know, there's kind of this thinking which goes back to when philanthropy was really local, which is kind of, I call it the field of dreams approach. Build it and they will come. And you know, when philanthropy was really local, so local folks gave to local nonprofits. That was fine. But the thing is, there's 1.5 million nonprofits just in the United States, and then there's international nonprofits, and they're all vying because, you know, the world has gone global.

Sarah Lange: We have the Internet, we have social media, there's lots of platforms out there. And so like you said, it's super noisy. So now a local nonprofit isn't just up against their Local, other, non profits. Right now, they're competing on a global scale. And so at the same time, you know, I remember, you know, back in the days when I used to work at non profits, they were like, oh, well, you can't really brag about it. And that's, you know, you can't really, you know, put your clients on display because that's exploitation and, you know, you shouldn't have to go out and beg for money. And so I was like, okay, so we're just going to stand here in the. At the top of the pristine tower and hope that people find us.

Sarah Lange: You know, it just struck me.

Michelle Knox: Right, right. And the thing is, you're really doing a disservice by not getting your message out there. They're doing really good work, you know, and, you know, to speak, I think some people. To what you said, I think some people can get overwhelmed with the global aspect. Right. And getting online and feeling like they have to, but starting local, you know, getting really clear and then building out from there and letting you know some of that. Because if you're really strong within your community and then that eventually kind of trickles out, you know, like the stone in the. In the pond.

Michelle Knox: Right. It'll eventually spread. So I think people can get overwhelmed when they think of marketing and branding, especially a nonprofit that's running on a tight budget anyway and they don't have the resources. Possibly, but. And, you know, it doesn't have to be dancing on TikTok.

Sarah Lange: Yeah.

Michelle Knox: You know, I mean, and you don't have to be showing up. Exactly. I do not dance on TikTok.

Sarah Lange: Me neither.

Michelle Knox: And so that's what I mean. With clarity, getting super clear about where your. Where's your audience? Where are you going to hone in? Do I need to be speaking. Speaking globally, or do I need to just make sure I am super clear and present in my region and then build possibly from there, you know, but. But starting at that foundational and getting really clear about who you're speaking to, making sure that people understand why what you do is important and a language that. That resonates with them. You know, getting out the story, telling the stories of the work that you've done and then really being consistent with that message and your brand. Visuals, for sure.

Michelle Knox: But I think just start with that foundation and then develop from there. And then I always say to you, I'm like, you know, some of these grants you can use for your marketing.

Sarah Lange: You know, I know I'm gonna confess right here. Be totally transparent. I am terrible at marketing myself. And I'm working to change that.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, for sure. And I know you well enough to know you have the entrepreneurial spirit. Spirit 100%. And it is so easy for entrepreneurs because we're in this online space all the time. Right. And we're hearing you need to be dancing on TikToks. Create a real, you know, you need to be speaking here, you need to be here, you need to be global, you need, you know, and, and it's shiny object. And, and it takes us away from.

Michelle Knox: Okay, what exactly was the goal? Let's bring it back in and then start with the foundational elements and then build from. From there, you know, and just stay in my lane and stay consistent. And I think that that can be hard.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And I think especially for non profits who are constantly under pressure to get the next dollar to serve the next person, maybe they don't have the capacity to serve everybody who has need for their services. So there's that pressure and possibly some guilt along with that, but absolutely. You know, I was just at a workshop last week on donor advised funds and the big question everybody had was, where do we find these people? I said, we'll start with your database. Start with people who are already contributing to you. Because some of them probably already have donor advised funds.

Michelle Knox: 100%. Yes.

Sarah Lange: And some of them may set up donor advised funds for your benefit, but start with the people who already love you. And I also say that about social media and marketing. Like 63% of people give to non profits supported by their friends and family. 63%. So you already have a database with people in it who already love you, so why not just encourage them to share their posts?

Michelle Knox: Exactly. That's what I was going to say.

Sarah Lange: Forward your deals.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, that's your marketing strategy right there. You know that that is a form of marketing strategy. People sometimes get overwhelmed. What do you mean, marketing strategy? Well, you know, create a plan, a marketing strategy and stick to it. And you know, then you start a campaign where it encourages people to share. I mean, we were all dumping ice water on our heads back in 2010. Right. And look what that did, you know?

Sarah Lange: Yeah, I like that. It was so funny because my son and I did that. We dumped ice bucket. I'm sure he got way more pleasure out of it than, you know, I did. But yes, I get to dump ice water on my mom. Yeah, I just think it's. It's easy to get overwhelmed, especially because, you know, in the real world we all have experiences with marketing that feels icky and slimy and manipulative. And so when we think in the nonprofit sector about marketing, we're like, well, I don't want to be slimy and a snake oil salesman and manipulative.

Sarah Lange: But the thing is in the nonprofit sector we can do heart centered marketing. We have, it's like you said, stories. We have so many stories we could.

Michelle Knox: Tell, you know, 100%. And then something else she said too about you know, there's only so many dollars and they want to serve so many people. And you know, most people that get into nonprofit are heart centered, big hearted people, of course that they want to just give more and more and more and but when you spread yourself too thin, then you end up not having that, that foundation and that base to keep drawing in and feeding, you know, feeding your coffers so that you can expand slowly and, and I'm sure that that's got to be hard to say. We're going to have to wait for the two year, five year goal to, you know, get the next amount of money in order to serve this next circle of people. But yeah, I think.

Sarah Lange: Or you can hire me and I could raise it for you.

Michelle Knox: Yes, exactly. And if they could come to you with a plan, you know, can you imagine around their marketing, I mean, I know that you help not only just fundraise, but help them organize their nonprofits so that they run better and the money is spent more effectively. Right. So what if they came to you and said we have a plan to reach this, that and the other and we want to do this marketing and we want to, you know, and so then you have an actual goal. Right. And Right. You know, can help them with that. Yeah, well, the other, about that in a bigger way.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. I mean the other piece of it is they don't necessarily even have to have a plan. So I'm working with one of my clients right now and he is sending out his first ever appeal letter. So he's a teeny tiny non profit, he's the only one who works there and yet he's trying to kind of spur a national movement. Right. So I just keep saying to him, let's, let's conquer Worcester first and then worry about the rest of the world. And, and he has an amazing bank of contacts. I mean he, he is really well networked in his area of interest.

Sarah Lange: And so, you know, I said to him, well, let's get this appeal letter out. We're calling it the launch letter because he's in the field of space. And so he's like, oh, my gosh, you know, how are we going to get this out? I said, well, you have a huge list of contacts. Let's send it out to them and then do a social media campaign. He's like, I don't know how to do that. I'm like, I do.

Michelle Knox: You know, exactly that. Yes.

Sarah Lange: I said, you know, you don't have to post three times a day, seven days a week. You could post one or two times a week. To me, it's more about getting them into a pattern of consistency.

Michelle Knox: 100%. Yes. Because it's a lot of work and it's engagement, too. So, I mean, being able to respond, getting responses from people. Right. It can be a lot. But start small. Right.

Michelle Knox: And be consistent. That's, you know, I talk about the three things. I think that was the title of this. So I want to make sure we hit on those. But the three things I talk about are clarity, consistency, and then commitment. Because it's hard work to do the real clarity work. Right. I mean, we've done a little bit of that and trying to rein in and boil down to that essence of your message and why you do what you do and saying it in a way that's going to resonate with your ideal client or customer or who you serve is deep work.

Sarah Lange: It is. And one of the things I often suggest to folks is doing a donor survey, or even you could ask your volunteers as well, because they're making contributions. So send out a survey and ask them, how do they identify? First of all, why? Why your organization? Right. There's 1.5 million nonprofits in the United States. Why are they giving to you? Why are they volunteering for you? Right. So get that information, because that's going to help you understand their motivations. And then find other people who think similarly or feel similarly. And then the other thing I ask them is to describe themselves in five words.

Sarah Lange: How would you describe yourself as a person? And then how would you describe yourself as a donor? And then, so the descriptors about, oh, here's how I am as a person can again, help you identify your, like, ideal donor avatar. And then you can wash, rinse, and repeat. You don't have to, like, figure out how to reach Jeff Bezos or Bill and Melinda Gates. You just have to figure out what are the types of people who are attracted to you and already supporting you and why and why. And then wash, rinse, repeat that, you know, so what most nonprofits, I always do a donor data dump with them. And what most nonprofits are going to find is that it's women over 50 who are carrying philanthropy right now.

Michelle Knox: Wow, I love hearing that.

Sarah Lange: I know, right? It's us. So, okay, great. Now go out and find more women over 50 who care about your cause. Like, where are they hanging out? You know?

Michelle Knox: Yeah. And this what all. Everything you're saying is no different than business. When businesses market and the things that they have to do. So nonprofit may feel like, well, we're not a business, but you. But you need to do the same sort of thing in order to get your message. It's all about a message and getting it out into the world. Right, right.

Michelle Knox: And so whether you're a business or a nonprofit, you go about it, you approach it the same way.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Well, that's the thing I find so interesting is there's so many nonprofits that don't realize how much they already have in their own database. The people who already love you are the place to start. Those are the relationships to leverage.

Michelle Knox: Whether it's your A list, right? Yeah, yeah, no, so we love you. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: So start there. Ask them, do they have friends and families, members who might be interested in the cause? Encourage them to share the emails, the social media posts, whatever it is. So like. And share. Because let's remember that 63%, that's the majority. Right. So you could get a whole bunch of donations if you just focus on that one strategy. Right? You could.

Sarah Lange: And this is what I do with my clients all the time. I'm like, let's plug the leaks before we worry about anything else. Because every non profit is leaving money on the table. It's just a matter of whether it's $5,000 or a hundred thousand dollars, you.

Michelle Knox: Know, but they're all, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: I have a client. We just changed the. His donation. Well, their donation page and the. When I first saw it, I was like, oh my goodness. There were three calls to action. So there were three opportunities for people to leave the page and they're probably not going to come back. I said, get rid of those.

Sarah Lange: It was visually very bland. And they're a child serving agency.

Michelle Knox: Oh, wow.

Sarah Lange: I'm like, get some photos of some adorable, happy kids on there. And then the other thing was there was no option to turn their gift into a monthly gift, right?

Michelle Knox: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: So all we did was post some pictures, upgrade the donation amount. And they were very worried, like, oh my gosh. Well, what if somebody only wants to give $25? I'm like, that's what the other line is. For like, you know, that blank. Right.

Michelle Knox: Which I pull in all the time when I'm donating. Right, yeah.

Sarah Lange: So just those little changes and just making sure that the only thing on that page was about donating. Right. And then we set up like a thank you sequence of emails. So we're sending out six emails over six weeks. So immediately after the donor makes their contribution, we're taking this from the world of marketing. You want purchase affirmation.

Michelle Knox: Yeah.

Sarah Lange: Right. And so they get a thank you, which is a very short video by the executive director saying, like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. You're going to help, you know, improve the quality of lives for kids in the Boston area. And, you know, like, just on an iPhone, 30 seconds, you know, it wasn't a big production. You don't have to hire. And then, you know, sending them the annual report, sending them information about the leadership Gift Society, you know, and so just those changes in the 30 days that those changes have been in play, there has been a 17 uptick that's in revenue over last year.

Michelle Knox: That's awesome.

Sarah Lange: That's what I'm talking about. Like, just plugging the leaks.

Michelle Knox: Exactly. It's simple foundational things, Right? It's those foundational things and having somebody that has some marketing know how to kind of look at it for you and. Because obviously they didn't see it. Right. So being able to hire an expert, someone that can give that once over and. And give you a punch list of things that, you know, really bump your roi. So.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And, you know, the thing is that we're all too close to it. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's why I work with you, because I am too close to my own company and the work that we're doing. I can't see the forest for the trees. I'm like, oh, here's a tree. Right?

Michelle Knox: Absolutely. I mean, they say. What do they say? You can't read the label from inside the bottle.

Sarah Lange: Oh, yeah, that's a good one.

Michelle Knox: It is. I mean, it's so true. I mean, when I was redoing my website, I hired a branding copywriter coach to work with me to help me with my messaging. And. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's really hard to do it for yourself, what you do so easily for other people.

Sarah Lange: Right, Exactly. It's like the cobbler's children. Right?

Michelle Knox: 100%. 100%. I say that all.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, well, that's the thing is, you know, there's so many nonprofits that are. And. And this is no fault. I'm not blaming nonprofits. They are spread so thin and there's so much roll compression that they can't kind of put up this periscope and see where the growing edges are. So, excuse me, just that one donation page was one tiny thing that we're working on, but it's already been a.

Michelle Knox: 17 ROI in just 30 days. Can you imagine? So to be able to take that revenue and then invest in that next thing on your list, whatever.

Sarah Lange: Yeah.

Michelle Knox: You know, plan you're helping them craft or, you know, so.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, so. And that's the thing, is that the donations page is now much more reflective of their brand. Right. Is that we're here to help kids off to a great start, you know, and so showing the kids engaging in different types of learning activities with big smiles on their faces is completely in line with their brand and their parent. The parents of the children who are featured are really excited. You know, there were a couple parents were like, yeah, I don't know about that. Which is fine. We could have actually.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: Or we could have used stock photography. Do you know what I mean? Like, it didn't have to be the actual children. And that's one of the things I say to non profits out there, is if you're feeling really like taking photos of your clients is sleazy and exploitive, the first thing I would say is ask them, because there's so many clients out there that want to share their story of transformation, and they're so grateful to the nonprofit. Like, oh, my gosh, you helped me in this way or that way. My life was like this before, and now it's like this. And I'm feeling much better and I'm doing much better. And they want other people like them to know that the transformation is possible. Right.

Sarah Lange: So they want to share their message of hope. And so many times we, because we're kind of like, experience marketing is sleazy and manipulative. We kind of just assume that that's how it's got to be. But we have so many people and so many stories. Like, I'm working with a national organization right now, and the stories we have too many stories to sift through, and they're all so compelling because this organization has transformed them, their lives. It's given them a second chance at life, and they want to get up on the roof with a megaphone and shout out about it. So they're very excited to share their story. They're like, oh, my God, I literally would not be alive right now.

Sarah Lange: If I were for this organization. And so no matter what field you're in, you have a million stories and you can craft them in a way that's respectful, that reflects the transformation. Because, you know, surprise. What your donors and funders are paying for is transformation. They don't really care about your overhead. What they care about is impact.

Michelle Knox: Yes, yes. And the fact that you have been running your business as long as you have has gives this extra, you know, this extra value add when you go to a nonprofit, because you're not only helping them with their fundraising. You can look at it from a branding and marketing perspective because you've been doing it on your own business, right? And you.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, 25 years. I can't believe it.

Michelle Knox: Exactly.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, the thing is, I believe that nonprofits are businesses. They are in the business of alleviating hunger, alleviating homeless, rescuing animal. Like whatever your mission is, that's your business. You are in the business of. And really, there are some differences between businesses and nonprofits, but mostly it's in the distribution of the profits. We all need customers, or we call them clients, right. We all need revenue.

Sarah Lange: Right. We all need to promote the work we do, not only to demonstrate impact, but to like excite people and engage them and letting them know that the money they've already given us has been put to work for the common good. Right?

Michelle Knox: So there's so many message out there is marketing, right. You've got to market that message, you know?

Sarah Lange: Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that I'm going to be focusing on a lot more in 2025 is because. So the boomers are going to carry philanthropy through 2035. Right? That's just a given fact. The boomers are very altruistic. They're very change oriented. They're the ones who brought us civil rights, women's rights. Right.

Sarah Lange: Sex, drugs, and rock and roll too. But all of it, all of it, all the things, right? But they are literally aging out of the population. And so we need to think about where's our farm team? Like our A team that's like at the top of the league is literally dying off, right? So they're going to continue to carry philanthropy. And so I've become very interested. I sort of in my head, I call it like the two buckets, right? So the, the big difference is the digital divide. So I didn't start using a computer Till I was 22 years old. It was like my senior spring. Somebody introduced me to the computer center.

Sarah Lange: I'm like, I Didn't even know this was here. Right. So that was the beginning of my tech journey. And yet my son has been on a computer since he was three. Right. So there is this kind of like digital native versus the rest of us who kind of had to adopt and figure it out as we went. And so we have to think about how do we engage millennials and Gen Z, because they're the next generation that's coming up. And so I kind of think it is like, that's one bucket.

Sarah Lange: Right. So they're digital natives, and then there's like the non digital natives, like my father used to call me all the time. My computer just did this. Well, how do I fix it? I was just like, oh, yeah, yeah.

Michelle Knox: I'm still getting that.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would be. Except that he's no longer with us. But so it's like, how do you feel your farm team? And so I'm really starting to focus more in on like, Millennials, Gen Z, how do they behave? How do they act around donations? Because they are actually very philanthropic.

Michelle Knox: Exactly. That's what I was gonna say.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. So how do we fill our farm team? But I'm telling all my clients, let's nail down who's already in your database. Like, let's like get. Let's get, you know, down and dirty with that group of people, you know, expand that group. And then like, once you've mastered that, once you are, like getting as much money out of that crew as possible, then we can worry about filling the pipeline and building your farm team.

Michelle Knox: And I would be curious too, that the ones that are already supporting them, I would want to see what the commonalities in all of them are. What is it that all of them are saying about your nonprofit that makes them want to give, that makes them continue to give, you know, and tap into that and that language possibly, possibly, you know, as you're moving forward, because there's some reason that all these people in their database have chosen that non profit to give to. So what is that? I'm curious about that.

Sarah Lange: Well, that's why you have to do a donor survey.

Michelle Knox: Yes, exactly, exactly.

Sarah Lange: For, you know, the digital folks, digital natives, that would be a QR code on social media. Right. Versus sending a survey link to the other folks, but via email. But yeah, it is really understanding about who is drawn to you in terms of your supporters, whether they're donors or volunteers or your board members who's already drawn to you. And why, I mean, that to me, is one of the key ways you can understand what your brand is.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, yeah. You know, and what your brand message needs to be moving forward. Forward. You know.

Sarah Lange: Right.

Michelle Knox: What, what, what have they heard or what is coming up in their heads when they think about your nonprofit? And how can we amplify that message so that we exactly connect with more of these donors?

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And it. And for me, the first place to start is, you know, you said earlier about dropping that rock in the pond and then watching the ripples go out. Start there. And that's why I always start with a donor data dump. Who are the people who are already in love with you enough to hand them your hard earned money? Right. So the good news for us in the United States is 70% of people give to philanthropy, so you don't have to worry about, oh, they're not going to know how to donate. No, they know how to donate.

Sarah Lange: And I'm going to tell you right.

Michelle Knox: Now, super easy for them to donate. Right?

Sarah Lange: Yes.

Michelle Knox: A lot of times if you have to get up and go get your card anymore, you're like, eh, you know, to make it super easy. Yeah, yeah, right.

Sarah Lange: Exactly. And let's not make me click three times to till I get to your donations page. I had that experience over the summer. Somebody really, they were. There was like a crisis situation, they needed money, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, great, I'd be willing to give you money like three clicks later. Then I finally get to the donation. I'm like, you're not making this easy on me.

Michelle Knox: Right, Exactly. You really have to want to give the money. And even if you really did, you're like, gosh, I don't have time for this right now. I'm gonna have to go back. I can't figure this out. Make it hard.

Sarah Lange: Right?

Michelle Knox: Yeah.

Sarah Lange: And it goes to what you just said about going to get the credit card, because three clicks later, now I have to go get my debit card.

Michelle Knox: Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: Okay, now, now that's four things you've asked me to do and I haven't even made my donation yet.

Michelle Knox: And I have to get out.

Sarah Lange: Right.

Michelle Knox: I have to get up.

Sarah Lange: I have to get up. Yeah. And then you just put it off until, you know, you need your next bio break or another cup of water.

Michelle Knox: Or whatever, or you never get back to it, you know?

Sarah Lange: Right.

Michelle Knox: Opportunity.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle Knox: So I always. And I love what you're saying about the follow up too, you know, the thank you, follow up and then the what's next and then keeping in contact with them and keep telling them new stories and Keeping them engaged. And.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, yeah, this organization that I was mentioning with the. They serve kids. Their newsletter was actually a snooze letter. So it was talking about things that had already happened. It wasn't really news. Right. And so now they're focused on, like. And we completely reorganized it so that the headlines are at the top.

Sarah Lange: So if you have a particular interest in, say, child welfare policy. Okay, here's our policy update. You know, if you have an interest in, like, other things, like, they, they recently redid a playground, so it was like playground progress. Right. So at the top, you can make a choice on how to invest your limited time by clicking that headline, which will drop you down to that part of the newsletter. But now it's all talking about forward, like, what's coming around the corner. So they just celebrated a bunch of kids graduating. Now they're all in kindergarten.

Sarah Lange: Right. So they talked about how kids. Kids need to know 10,000 words in order to be ready for kindergarten.

Michelle Knox: Oh, wow, That's a lot, right? That is a lot. It sounds like a lot. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: So they use this really cute picture of their kids with like their little graduation caps on and little paper diplomas with ribbons around them. And they talked about the need for language, right. Teaching your child language and the importance of reading and talking about how, like, kids need access to books and they need access to, like, talking. Right. And they were talking about, you know, like, limiting screen time so that your child can actually have access to resources like books and speaking with other people to build their word count so that they are ready to succeed in kindergarten. And that to me, I, like, I didn't know that. I didn't know kids need to know 10,000 words. I was like, you know, my, my son started reading.

Sarah Lange: He was like a voracious reader from a very young age, so I didn't have to worry about him. But, you know, there are kids who either don't know how to read, or maybe they don't know how to read English very well, or maybe they have an unidentified learning issue when it comes to reading. So, you know, just. I just reading his newsletter. Well, the newsletter they sent out. I was like, wow, who knew, right? So, you know, I said to him, you know, the next thing as a follow up is you could do like a book drive, right?

Michelle Knox: Oh, I love that. Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Lange: I said, so I'm sure you guys spend a lot of money on books, but why not have other people participate in that? Like, I love the idea that I could give you X number of dollars and it would buy X number of books for the kids in your center. Right. And so it's just kind of taking these ideas. What's next? Right. So somebody makes a donation. Great. Let's send them a welcome video. Let's send them our annual report.

Sarah Lange: And so every week they're hearing from us and they're learning more about us. They're deepening their engagement. And what data shows is that when people deepen their engagement, they deepen their giving. So it's like the wallet follows the heart. It's not the other way around. So, and I think, again, this goes back to marketing and branding. Right. Because they want to be known as not just a child care center.

Sarah Lange: They want to be known as an institution that cares about the kids and their care, that cares about their community. And that is getting these kids off to a good start.

Michelle Knox: And that's the looking at the big picture, the 10 years down the road, the, you know, starting to think about, you know, what, we're doing this for the future.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And one of the projects they're working on is finding alumni.

Michelle Knox: That's great.

Sarah Lange: Isn't that awesome? Because. And. And there's been a couple of full circle stories that. That I've really encouraged them to promote, which is that there's a mom who went to the daycare center who is now bringing their child to the daycare center. Right. There's a uncle whose nephew went to the daycare center, and now the nephew's son is coming. It's like, you gotta tell these stories because.

Michelle Knox: And stories are marketing for sure.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Yeah. So that's been really fun. I was like, oh, let's do an alumni spotlight. So. Yeah. So, like, these people are already in your orbit. Like, you don't need to know Jeff Bezos.

Sarah Lange: You don't need to know Mackenzie Scott. You don't need to know Bill and Melinda. There's already so many people right. In your area, you know.

Michelle Knox: Yeah. And already in your orbit, for sure. But. And then, you know, starting there, just like you said, it's all foundational starting there, making sure that they're engaged and giving on a consistent basis, and then having them share the good work with their networks and expanding that way. I just think that's a great way to start, but definitely foundational.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. So what are some other tips you would give nonprofits about branding and marketing if they haven't? Like, I see a lot of nonprofits that actually don't have a brand. They might have a logo, but they don't have a brand. So what would you say to them about getting started? Like, I know that the brand is partially the logo, but it's also kind of about the language. So if you could go a little more into like branding and, and like, so for example, we all know Nike, right? It's that little swoosh. But what else do we know about Nike?

Michelle Knox: Yeah, it's. Again, I'll go back to it's, it's what people think of when they think of the name of your non profit. Right. Or your, you know, the, the Nike swish is just an icon, right. That we now associate with Nike. But what do we think of when we think about Nike, which actually they've been struggling, so maybe not a great example. Well, no, it's, it's, it's great. They've got.

Michelle Knox: But somebody just kind of really tried to. It kind of watered down their brand. But the bad idea, just do it, you know, is what we think in athletics and top athletes and whatever those images are or thoughts you think of. Right. But in order to craft and curate what that is in the minds of the people that are going to donate, are going to volunteer, going to support and really help market your brand for you. Right. You need clarity around your message, clarity around what the ultimate goals are. Making sure everybody on the team is pulling in the right direction.

Michelle Knox: Right. Using the same language. Once you get that brand messaging down and make sure that that is the message that you use consistently wherever people show up and throughout your team. Right. Make sure your team's using that same language. Yeah. Getting super clear about who you serve and why you serve those people. That's all part of creating your brand and part of branding.

Michelle Knox: And then as far as brand visuals, which is what everyone thinks of when they think of branding and of course they think of the visuals which because we're, most of us are visual people. Right. And I just think that that has somehow gotten tied in with being the brand. But it is important to make sure that your visuals match the personality of your brand, match the essence of your brand and then that you're again, consistent that second C. Right. Super consistent everywhere. Not just, oh, our color is blue. So let me just pick a blue because now I'm in, you know, word or whatever and I'm just going to.

Michelle Knox: No, let's be consistent with our brand colors and make sure they're consistent. Make sure the type. I had a client I was working with earlier this year and when I asked and, and she had been in business for a long time and I asked what her fonts were. Because I wasn't doing a visual rebrand for her. She was like, oh, well, I think we use, like, the same six fonts. I don't really pay attention. I just. And I was like, oh, you're making my head explode.

Michelle Knox: You know, like, so making sure you're consistent, developed. Again, it's foundational. Right. I create a visual brand foundation for my clients. So we nail down your color palette, we nail down the type families that you're going to use. Right. Your logo, of course, the submarks that you're going to use, any graphic patterns, visuals that you're going to use throughout your visual branding and all of the touch points within your marketing. So that's getting those foundational and then being committed to doing that work, because it's not easy work.

Michelle Knox: I mean, it's. You kind of have to slow down to speed up. Right. People use that term. You have to be able to stop. And I remember when I was doing my own rebrand and coming up with my own messaging, I mean, you just. There's four times I was just like, I want to curl up in a ball. I want.

Michelle Knox: I want to hire Lone Red to do this for me is what I used to tell people. I don't want to have to do it myself, so.

Sarah Lange: Right. Well, and that's the thing about being a business owner is, like, you have to make all the decisions about everything all the time. So that can make your head explode. But one of the things I want to get back to is, you know, you were talking about how important it is that the language is consistent across the team. And I also want to say that your board needs to be talking about you in the same way as well.

Michelle Knox: That's part of the team, right?

Sarah Lange: Yeah. Yeah. So it's not just a staff responsibility, but it's a board responsibility because they are the ambassadors of your brand. Right. So they need to be sure that they're talking about your organization in a consistent way. And one of the things that I've experienced is I was taking a. One of my clients through a rebranding exercise, and we actually went out to people and said, when you think of this organization, what comes to mind? And we realized we had a massive perception issue out there because. Yeah.

Sarah Lange: So this organization offered a continuum of services to women, and they were really just well known for one service. And we were like, well, that's kind of almost the smaller part, especially compared to this other part of their programming, which was literally like 10 times. Yeah. 10 times the size of the first program. So we realized we had a massive perception problem and that people had actually no idea what this organization did, which then informed the way that the logo was designed. So the three primary programs then became part of the logo. It became part of the way that they talked about the organization. We had to kind of retrain the board because the board was.

Sarah Lange: Had the same perception problem. And they're like, oh, well, we're really just this. We're like, no, these other two things are bigger than this.

Michelle Knox: And this third party, real flip on the messaging, you know, and really amplifying those other two things.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And it completely changed how the organization communicated about everything. So it was a complete flip. But we were so glad that we discovered there was a massive perception problem because that needed to be corrected.

Michelle Knox: And that is being inside the bottle and not being able to read the label. Right. Swimming in your own water. You're swimming in it all the time. You can't see it anymore. And so having that outside perspective is so helpful.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. The other thing we realized is that through doing, like, a donor data dump, they had a huge number of supporters. That was actually the majority of their income, which is unusual for nonprofits. But there was very little participation from anybody living outside the city of Worcester. And we knew that this organization was helping women from across the county. And so then we had to think about, how do we get the message out to other towns and cities in the county?

Michelle Knox: And that's me. I have to keep saying, that's marketing. These non profits, they don't want to do marketing. I was like, this is marketing.

Sarah Lange: Yeah, exactly. And we changed the way we constructed the newsletter. We made it so that somebody could get through the entire newsletter while they were drinking their coffee in the morning. It became very visual. The short stories became very short. It was like, here's what's going on, here's what's coming. You know, get excited. Here's how you can support us.

Michelle Knox: Yes.

Sarah Lange: And so we actually watched the donations that came in through the newsletter go up significantly because people were more engaged and more excited, and they could get through it in the time it took them to get there.

Michelle Knox: Right. We're intimidated with so much to read and respond.

Sarah Lange: Right, right. Well. And that's the other thing is, you know, when I. To me, there's five things that. Are you gonna bring your fundraising up or drag it down? First is your approach to individual donors. Right. So what does that program look like? The second is grants. I treat them like marketing pitches because they are.

Sarah Lange: Right. You're. Unfortunately, you're not in the room to convince people about how amazing you are, the great work you're doing. The other thing is, how is your board of directors, especially vis a vis fundraising? Right. And that could be marketing, promotion, recruiting, board member, like. Right. And then strategic planning and strategic positioning, and also, obviously, social media and communication. So to me, those are the five things that if you're not, like, paying attention to them, they're gonna, like, detract from your fundraising.

Sarah Lange: Right. And so it's really important to look at each of those areas and say, where are we at? Where are the places we can grow? And there, you know, like I said earlier, there's a lot of strategies you can put in place that are, like, micro strategies that are going to lead to more money. You know, like, just changing the amounts on your donation page leads to more money.

Michelle Knox: Yes. And it's those. It's just that percentage, that little incremental bit. But when you have thousands of donors.

Sarah Lange: Right, right.

Michelle Knox: It really makes a difference, and it makes a difference in your budget. It's great. You know, all those little things. Yeah. Add up.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. And it could be even if you have 100 donors. Right. So the whole idea is you're giving them inspiring messages and stories and other pieces of what we'll call marketing to deeply engage them in supporting your work. And like I said earlier, your wallet follows your heart. I mean, I have given away more money than I ever thought I would in my lifetime because I had, you know, my graduate school was very good at cultivating me. And, like, I knew it. I'm like, oh, I'm waiting for the big ask.

Sarah Lange: And then it came, and it wasn't surprising. I mean, I was like, oh, I'm surprised you didn't do this two years ago. And they're like, oh, we could have. I'm like, yeah.

Michelle Knox: But anyway, we know this. We know about marketing. Right. We know about the big ask, whatever. But if it's done well, we're still giving, you know?

Sarah Lange: Right, Exactly.

Michelle Knox: Like in the cause. We're still giving. Yeah.

Sarah Lange: I mean, like, I'm a professional fundraiser. I know every trick in the book. I can see you coming. I can smell you coming. I can hear you coming. But if you do it the right way and you engage me at a particular level, I'm in, you know, because I love your cause. I believe in it, you know, so there's. There's organizations who have gotten more money out of me than I ever thought I would give to them, and it's because they keep sending me amazing stories.

Sarah Lange: And I'm like, oh, my God, I want to make more of that happen, you know? And. And the. The thing that I found is that most people want to help. Most people are kind. Most people are generous. Most people want to give back or give for a million different reasons, and we just need to provide them with the opportunity to do so. So I never talk about it. I.

Sarah Lange: I don't talk about it as asking for money. I talk about it as inviting people to join the cause.

Michelle Knox: Yes. Yes. You know, and be a part of something bigger. Right, right.

Sarah Lange: Because that's what we all want.

Michelle Knox: Yes.

Sarah Lange: We all want to feel that our lives have meaning and that we can do something that makes a difference.

Michelle Knox: Yeah.

Sarah Lange: So, yeah, I just. I mean, obviously, I love what I do.

Michelle Knox: Obvious. And you're good at what you do because you love what you do, so.

Sarah Lange: Right.

Michelle Knox: For sure.

Sarah Lange: Yeah. So do you have any final words, advice, tips on marketing and branding for nonprofits?

Michelle Knox: I would definitely just say that foundation, getting that visual and the brand message nailed down is number one. And then those three things. Clarity. That's part of it. Consistency, and then commitment to keep it going. You know, once you. Once you've gotten clear, be consistent, and then commit to that goal that you set out and what your message is and keep going.

Sarah Lange: Yeah.

Michelle Knox: Yeah.

Sarah Lange: Great. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I learned something new. Yeah, it's fun.

Michelle Knox: It's always fun. Yeah. It's good to. To be able to talk to your audience, too, and answer you. So this is good.

Sarah Lange: Great. Well, thanks for joining us. And we'll be back in two weeks with another topic. I'm spacing on what it is, but.

Michelle Knox: But two weeks from today.

Sarah Lange: Two weeks from today. We'll be back. Come back and join us for another exciting episode of the Philanthropy Revolution. Bye, guys.

Michelle Knox: Bye.

Thanks for tuning in. I'll be back in two weeks with another episode. Got topics you want me to cover? Organizations you want me to showcase? Let me know. Also, I'm here to help you revolutionize philanthropy at your nonprofit. If you want to talk about what that looks like, drop me an email.